Kashmir Truth Be Told Blog
Yus neereth gassan, pheereth cha yevaano: morda che gassan zinde (Kashmiri saying)

2/17/10

Teen protesters charged with "Insult to national honour"

I don't have a clue why the western media does not report on the fascist tactics used by the Indian occupiers in Kashmir. For instance, a few days ago, 14 teenaged protesters were rounded up from around Srinagar and charged with--I wish I were making this up--"Insult to National Honour" and "Waging a war against the state."

The teens, aged between 13 and 18 years old, were led in handcuffs to the court where the charges were announced. (Click here for news)

Only in Israel are teens similarly arrested and incarcerated. Perhaps, these recent arrests of Kashmiri teens are a result of Israeli traning of the Indian Occupation Force. (Click here to read about similar Israeli arrests of Palestinian kids)

The teens are not charged with militancy related incidents, and their only crime is to shout anti-India slogans and allegedly pelt stones at the Indian Occupation troops. Which gets me to think that perhaps their alleged stone pelting attracted the "Waging a war against the state" charge, and therefore the "Insult to National Honour" charge is for shouting anti-India slogans.

So, my question is that if these innocent teen sloganeers can be charged with "insulting the national honour" for anti-India sloganeering, what charges await bloggers such as myself who openly advocate the disintegration and break-up of India into thirty smaller countries? After all, how is that different than anti-India sloganeering?

To establish my anti-India credentials, I would like to remind the Indian fascist occupiers that I regularly write about India being the most digusting and pathetic country in the world. I have a long list of reasons why I feel this way--readers only need to browse through this blog to read those reasons. I wonder when the fascist Indians will show up at my door to charge me with "insulting the national honour"?

Thankfully I am not alone. There are hundreds of Kashmiri bloggers--some of whom I have linked on the right column of this blog--who also remind readers that our grudge with the pathetic and fascist country of India is for genuine events that happen regularly. For instance, just yesterday, the Indian occupation slumdogs opened indiscriminate fire on mourners in a Kashmiri village called Kulgam. (Click here for news)

It is worthwhile to note here that there is not a single pro-India blogger from Kashmir. So much for India's claims that Kashmiris are pro-India! Even Omar Abdullah and his stooges gave up blogging when they ran out of lies to continue to justify India's occupation.

63 comments:

  1. You call stone pelting as peaceful protesting? No doubt they were charged. India has given a South Indian Muslim girl like me and my relatives all the opportunities I can imagine. I love my India just like any Hindu. I believe that India is a responsible state and wouldn't authorize killings of civilians or peaceful protesters. These could be the handiwork of some rouge solders. I also know of lot of Indian muslims killed by the terrorist bombings/attacks across the country. That dosen't mean they were anti Islam, they were just anti Human.

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  2. @Sunaina
    //You said:"I believe that India is a responsible state and wouldn't authorize killings of civilians or peaceful protesters." //

    Sorry to say, but what you believe is wrong. That is the reason why Kashmiris will never join India now; because India has killed 150,000 Kashmiris.

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  3. @Sunaina,

    True India is a responsible state, that is why 10000 muslims were burnt alive in Gujarat n Modhi still is the CM. I won't even talk about Mumbai riots or Babri Masjid or Kandhamal or Karnataka CHURCH attacks here as you living in South India were probably dreaming when churches were burning in your backyard.

    On a lighter note....enjoy your India with all its perks, for us Kashmiris...for the love of God just leave us alone...we have seen enough of your glory.

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  4. why do indian muslims feel so obligated to awkwardly say "I am muslim and I love India". It seems they constantly have to be apologetic or they must wear their patriotism on their sleeve to prove their loyalty to an ever skeptic majority.

    Strange.

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  5. As Human biengs we are programmed to think only from our point of view. Why nobody talks of the burning alive of Hindu monks by muslims that started the Gujarat riots or the Bombay bomb blasts that led to the riots there or the destruction of the Ram temple at the supposed birth place of Rama by the Mogulas who built the Babri Masjid there or the conversion of illiterate tribal by foreign Christian missionaries by promising monitory benefits that led to the attacks on church's. Because we dont care to think on the other person's point of view. I though strongly condemn how some Hindus reacted to these autocracies.

    That is why though winning in Gujarat, a hindu inclined BJP has lost 2 national elections in a row even though they are way less corrupt than the Congress party. This shows most Indians dont condone such attacks.

    Most muslims dont need to prove our patriotism here. We hardly think in the shoes of our religion on a day to day basis. It is only when such discussion comes up do we think as Muslims. On a lighter side, dont think that we are sitting in bunkers fearing hindu attacks. For a overwhelming majority of us our day to day problems has nothing to do about we being muslims.

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  6. @Sunaina
    I am sure I speak the sentiments of a majority of Kashmiris when I say that we wish you all the best--Indian Muslims as well as good and kind Indian hindus such as Arundhati Roy--because it is your country no matter what religion you are; just like Kashmir is our country.

    Similarly, we are against all those who wish to occupy us, be they Indian muslims or Indian Hindus. We recognize the fact that a lot of Indian muslims are also serving in your country's army and many of them are stationed in Kashmir as part of your country's occupation force. Needless to say Kashmiris do not discriminate when they call your country's soldiers "pigs" or "dogs" because they are well aware that some of the soldiers are Indian muslims.

    In summary, you love your country of India and we love our country of Kashmir. Your country is evil because it occupies our's.

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  7. [quote]Why nobody talks of the burning alive of Hindu monks by muslims that started the Gujarat riots[/quote]

    The investigative reports do not seem to say so, but since you are faithful than the king you seem to say so.

    [quote] or the Bombay bomb blasts that led to the riots there [/quote]

    And what were the Bombay blasts a reaction to? Forgot that?

    [quote]or the destruction of the Ram temple at the supposed birth place of Rama by the Mogulas who built the Babri Masjid there[/quote]

    Muslims like you will even accept that (Allah Forgive me) at Holy Kabba was built over a Hindu temple as your sick minded Hindu brothers claim.

    [quote] or the conversion of illiterate tribal by foreign Christian missionaries by promising monitory benefits that led to the attacks on church's. [/quote]

    To start with why werent the tribals cared for by the GoI or the Hindus, why were they remembered only when they agreed to lead a better monetory life. People have taken to prostitution to earn money, change of religion is no deal for a people who beg for food and are still called tribals by enlightened minds like you

    [quote]Because we dont care to think on the other person's point of view. I though strongly condemn how some Hindus reacted to these autocracies.[/quote]

    SOME HINDUS!!! the entire burning of Gujrat was BY SOME HINDUS. God save you from yourself.

    [quote]That is why though winning in Gujarat, a hindu inclined BJP has lost 2 national elections in a row even though they are way less corrupt than the Congress party. This shows most Indians dont condone such attacks.[/quote]

    BJP lost because they oppose Valentines day not for Gujrat. And I am not kidding. Indians do not care what happens to Muslims but they worry for their own souls

    [quote]Most muslims dont need to prove our patriotism here. We hardly think in the shoes of our religion on a day to day basis. It is only when such discussion comes up do we think as Muslims. On a lighter side, dont think that we are sitting in bunkers fearing hindu attacks. For a overwhelming majority of us our day to day problems has nothing to do about we being muslims.[/quote]

    The Sachar Committee Report tells a different story though. Have a look and then tell me whether you are living in a bunker or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachar_Committee#Main_findings_of_the_report

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  8. @ Sunaina, By the way Sunaina, why do u have a Hindu name...followed by a Muslim surname.

    @K....wonderful/fantastic answers man...Sachaar committe report is an amazing antidote to Sunaina's myopic Hindutva vision.

    And why do Indians always weigh us Kashmiris on the scale of islamic terrorism/religious bigotism, its because they cannot see beyond their self conceived notions and ludicrous infallibility.

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  9. Diversity is what makes India unique..it is the same country that had made a muslim its president and a sikh its president...just show me one country that is this tolerant...we have harboured muslims as our country men coz we feel they are part of us...we were brothers and sisters once before people getting converted to this awesome religion called Islam ( am a brahmin by birth and still have this immense faith in allah or jesus and no this is not am being very progressive as any urban indian now is but am truly drawn towards islam and christianity apart from being a well bred brahmin from south india)...the hatred that we have harboured for such a long time should just GO...we have killed each other...but there have been peoplewho have been benefitted from our fights and still shake hands behind us,common people...we becoming this hatred towards each other is their victory and our loss....

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  10. it is the same country that made a shahjahan out of shahjahan and had hindus crushed by some barbaric moghul invaders...we still accepted all the other moghul emporers with open arms and have made them rule us...

    it is the same country that fought for the freedom of both hindu and its minorities people from british raj...

    come on guys...we are not built of hatred..we DO care about what happens to my muslim brothers and sisters..

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  11. @anonymous

    Like a broken record, as though the above comments by Chinaar and K were never made.

    If India works for you, wish you all the best. It doesnt work for us Kashmiris for the reasons noted above.

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  12. Enjoy the freedom Yousuf, enjoy it as much as you can. If it was any other country your internet connection would have been long gone by now.

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  13. it is because u guys are going like broken record..u guys just dont want to see anything beyond ur damn hatred to this country..even after muslims trying to bring in the good points they say! that is what is making u guys even more aloof..it is not india..well! for every Abdul Kalam there is one yousouf and another chinnar..so what more can i say that will change and bring in a renaissance..???nothing! nada! u guys will continue hate india for no god damn reason..and we weill still support for just being kashmiris and being indians...thassit..whatever man! u guys have been from birth told to hate india..and i see no change in this...so whatever!a mere Sunaina or an anonymous cant change ur views...may allah be with u all...that is all i can say!

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  14. i just pity one thing though! it is like how even now black americans harp on about coming to US as slaves when they are earning millions and millions of money in US and now seeing a black president voted by many many white americans..they will still not see that white americans have now started seeing beyond race and color...it is so similar...ur guys stories are u know! we have made a muslim president of a country that has 80% of population as HIndus..an Omar Abdullah marries a hindu..even then! phew!.. !u will always think this way! so yeah!whatever! peace out!

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  15. Friends, This is an answer to Mr. K:

    Investigation report does not say about burning of hindu monks in Godhra? Whatever it says or does not say. Truth is a truth. It is not simply the Hindus were provoked. Wish this NEVER happpened.


    Quote: Muslims like you will even accept that (Allah Forgive me) at Holy Kabba was built over a Hindu temple as your sick minded Hindu brothers claim.

    How could you forget history so fast. Muslim kings have destroyed temples all over India. The sultans of Afganistan have ransaked the gold idols and other welth for which hindu temples were famous for. Even in Kashmir,sultans like Sikandar Butshikan the muslim ruler has destroyed temples, tortured and killed a lot of hindus. Just google his name and the truth will be known.

    Regarding convertion of hindu tribals, why is that you compare them to beggers. Even educated people get brain washed by preachings and later realise that all religions speak the same. The rich idiginious culture of these tribals are destroyed and then these tribals are looked down by mainstream christains. I know of churches that dont make the backward (Sheduled) caste christains sit in the front benches during prayers. Some of them use lies as a tool for convertion. That is the reason some hindus are against it. Many converted people also reconvert back to hinduism when they find out that their souls were cheated. Why should foreign missinaries interfere in our internal matters? They have a vision of having the entire world follow only 1 religion...that is Christanity.

    [quote]SOME HINDUS!!! the entire burning of Gujrat was BY SOME HINDUS.[/quote]

    Entire gujarat was not burning. But whatever happened in very unfortunate and there is NO excuse.

    [quote]BJP lost because they oppose Valentines day not for Gujrat. [/quote]

    Most of the people who vote are the illitrate for whom Valentines day dosent matter. Had all the educated been voting and not been too busy to participate is a democratic process, all these currupt politiciens would have had no place.

    However your Sachar commitee report was the only thing worth responding to. The averege muslim is poorer that the averege hindu and live in places that dont have very good approach roads ets. This is partly true. If an averege hindu has 2 children the averege muslim will have 5 children how will the parents be able to provide good education for their children. This will only lead to poverty. Luckily the muslims are smarter now a days and this trend is reducing. A muslim was once grumbling with me of how his mother wanted him to have more than 3 children and he got his wife operated (for birth control) without the knowlege of his family. He told me that some outdated concepts of the religion is followed in a overpopulated country like India. which makes their life misarable.

    Also I see a dangerous trend where some employers in India give preference to people of their own castes while hiring. Thus not just some muslims but also people of other hindu casts are not selected. Even Muslim employers give preference to musilms while hiring. All this should stop. Only merit should be the criteria for hiring.

    However, the Sachar findings shows the true and genuine intent of the government to develop minorities. Even as a hindu I wish that their recomondation are fully implemented for proper inclusive growth. Nobody should be left out in the development process of our country.

    Whatever i am saying is only the truth and has no exagerated claims. If everyone had known the truth, India would have been a much better place to live.

    Santosh Mishra
    Uttar Pradesh
    India

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  16. Santosh:

    First, what makes you think I am a Mr. Nevermind!

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    Godhra:
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    Justice U C Banerjee claimed that the fire was an accident, not a deliberate act. Like you I too wish it NEVER happened, as I wish that the Government of Gujrat and the Police did not have electoral rolls to locate and murder Muslims, opening the womb of women and taking the baby out and murdering both.

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    Muslim rule in India
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    With all the claims of Muslims killing Hindus, it is surprising, not in the least, that still 80 percent of India is Hindu. An 800 year rule of Mughals should have given them enough time to make India a Muslim state, but they failed, something a Hindu rule would have made sure of.

    Yes, many crusaders did ranksack the wealth of Indian temples, but they were that: crusaders looking for loot. Interestingly some of them actually had Hindu Governors rule the states they looted.

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    Sikandar Butshikan
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    Who is he? Wikipedia has an article with false reference, the ISBNs do not exist and all other references are false, for they neither mention the chapter nor the page number of the books the references are allegedly from.

    BUT he might have existed, though even though my knowledge of Kashmir History is NOT bad, I would have never forgotten such a strange name.

    But then none of the Karkota Dynasty, Utpala Dynasty, Lohara dynasty, or for that matter Jayashima’s rule was too impressive for Kashmiris. The vices within Utpala dynasty is folk lore now. And Sayid dynasty from which Sikander is supposed to belong, was too busy infighting and none of them were able to maintain a power grip over Kashmir. It was when Sultan Rinchin was running wawy from Ladakh - did he land in Kashmir to a place in power and then the spread of Islam started.

    And I should not even start with the Dogra rule, where killing a cow led to De-skining of the Muslim. If a Muslim killed a Hindu, he was hanged and if a Hindu killed a Muslim, he was fined a few annas. And this was the 20th century for Kashmiri Muslims.

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    One more question
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    We all know that Buddhism was the religion of Kashmir before Hinduism. No prizes for guessing who killed/destroyed Buddhism in Kashmir. It was not Islam I will tell you. Guess why?

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    Conversions
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    I agree they are a WRONG thing, they happen in Kashmir as of now. But WE do NOT go and kill the missionaries, even though Kashmiris are known to kill anything.

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    Muslims in India
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    Birth control is not the cause of Mulims poverty in India, that is a very narrow minded answer.

    Thank you Santosh for trying to have a proper debate, which is not a common sight. You talked logically and that interested me to answer your questions, unlike other people here, who seem to be more interested in crap.

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  17. The Jews of Europe were brutalized by the Nazis in WWII. Sadly, they did not fight back until 6 million innocent souls perished. God forbid such horror is revisited to anyone, anywhere in all of humanity.

    Kashmiris should look at successful liberation movements and their common characteristics i.e.

    Action among your people: Total mobilization of propaganda, motivational & organizational measures to manipulate internal masses and fighting units. Example: Intensive indoctrination and total mobilization of all civilian and military personnel in every corner of Kashmir.

    Action among enemy military: Low-intensity engagement in logistically widened space, Subversion, proselytizing, and propaganda to encourage desertion, defection and lowered morale among enemy troops. Example: contribution to large number of Indian Army deserters, defeatists.

    Action among enemy’s people: Total propaganda effort to sow discontent, defeatism, dissent and disloyalty among enemy’s population. Involves creation and/or manipulation of front groups and sympathizers. Example: work among international media, activist and academic circles.

    From what I can see, the Kashmiris current strategy is to simply be nothing more than India's punching bag.

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  18. @ Santosh Mishra,

    Fine u guys are great, in fact your greatness is beyond everything and anything that God ever made....so in your hour of glorification, please grant us Kashmiris a just democratic right i.e. RIGHT TO SELF DETERMINATION as promised to us by the Great Indian PM Pt. JL Nehru at the UN and inside Indian parliament.

    If you think of us Kashmiris as your brothers and sisters, then trust us and let us decide our future. If you don't and think of us as nothing but ignorant religious fanatics, then stop harping the same old fallacies cause these harpings don't change the political realities on the ground.

    @ Anonymous,
    WE Kashmiris started a quit Kashmir movement against the Maharaja in 1931(Way before India got its independence) and when he signed an instrument of accession with India, Kashmiris saw in Indians a continuation of the Maharaja's policies of debauchery and religious fanaticism...so much so that 1% of Kashmiri Hindus controlled all major government/bank/police/bureaucratic/academic jobs.....this was not accidental but just a follow up on the policies instituted by the Maharaja.

    WE are neither black Americans nor white...Black Americans by the way always believed in America....their struggle was not for a separate state but equal rights....On the contrary we never voted to accede to the Indian union like the people of Junagadh did...so the question of seperatism does not arise. All we are asking is to let us KASHMIRIS DEMOCRATICALLY DECIDE OUR FUTURE.....what is wrong with that???????

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  19. India has always had violent answer to peaceful Kashmiri resistence. It is a shame to Indian nation of more than 1 billion people, when a 13 or 16 year old Kashmiri boys are considered as a threat to Indian nation. India cannot muzzle or buy Kashmiris by "Chanaykya Nitis". Abdul Kalam as president of India did nothing to uplift Indian Muslims. infact he played his role as a nominal powerless head of the state , in a way as prescribed by modern "Koutaliyas" of India. Any one talking about the miserable condition of Muslims in India is being given an example of Muslim president of India and mouths are made to shut.
    Same is the case in Kashmir. Anyone talking about the Kashmir dispute is being injected with examples of assembly elections and Sheikh Abdullah and his Son and his grand Son and so on and so forth.
    These tools of fraud and deciet have lost their relevance now. "Chanayka Niti" is not working anmore. India is primarily India of Slumdogs and world knows that. And we Kashmiris cannot even bear to be associated with Slumdogs.

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  20. @anonymous, three posts above

    [quote]//Action among enemy’s people: Total propaganda effort to sow discontent, defeatism, dissent and disloyalty among enemy’s population. Involves creation and/or manipulation of front groups and sympathizers. Example: work among international media, activist and academic circles.//

    Thanks for the good advice. We are in fact following the last pointer that you suggested to some extent.

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  21. Chinar, I did not mean to offend you when I said you have not struggled for liberaton. of course you have. I am talking about the method and strategy of peaceful protests will only be met by bullets, tear gas and torture.

    Examples: Algeria against France, Vietnam against US,France, US against England, Afghanistan against Soviets, Bangladesh against Pakistan etc.

    The supposed exception of India was liberated from the british raj not because of gandhian principles but Adolf Hitler's blitzing and weakening of London.

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  22. @ anonymous,
    I agree with you one hundred percent that Gandhian principles did nothing to weaken the British and they went out of India cause of Adolf's policies n of course the Chinese stopped buying the Indian opium in exchange for Chinese manufactured goods.

    So, what to do then....we can't fight India militarily cause we are a paltry 7.2 million people against a 1.3 billion strong slumdogs. And in the post 9/11 scenario when every legitimate liberation struggle has successfully been dubbed as terrorist movements....Notwithstanding a 150,000 Kashmiris who have been killed in cold blood by the brutal slumdog Indians... WHAT CAN WE POOR PEOPLE DO?????

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  23. you know how i wish i had the power to liberate you guys...just for the thing of wanting to know what you guys will do after that! look at Czech and Bolivia..and other withered away smaller countries of USSR...all they are doing right now is BEG IN FRONT OF USA who btw is the biggest enemy of u guys....seirously man...and i do want to see u all be free so that I dont have to see these blogs..coz once u are liberated, which irrationally thinking bunch of people forming a govt would do?take away your freedom of expression and yank all the broadband and such...look at Taliban ...pre and post tabliban...

    seirously...what do u guys will do after u are liberated...? i am very curious to know...

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  24. Read this http://goo.gl/fb/oCa3

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  25. @ Anonymous,

    U don't have to look too hard around u, If Bhutan/Nepal/Burma-Sandwiched between China n India can survive....so can we. You are by the way quoting comments just like how the Britishers used to talk about "what Indians will do after the great British empire leaves".

    In short what I will say is that you don't discourage/stop a child who wants to swim from going into the sea for fear of it drowning or being eaten by the sharks(Read India).

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  26. I agree with Sunanina. I am also an Indian Muslim and I am lucky to be born in this great country. I have never been biased in my whole life and I am not very religous too to be frank. But anybody who says India differntiates anything based on religion must be joking. I am not saying that there are no problems but they exist everywhere and not only in India. The West and the Arab countries also dont have as unbiased democracy which is based on equality. We all Indian irrespective of religion, caste, creed etc. love and are like brothers and sisters. I am saying about the overwhelming majority and not a few crooks who are found every corner of the world.


    Regarding the post, I am terribly disappointed if the poster here represents any sizeable view of Kashmiris. You are supporting stone pelting and violence saying that is justified and minor offense. What type of BS is that? Today the protestors have killed a 11 day old KASHMIRI infant (FYI even Allah says that infants are as pure as "Farishtas"). So, I think you will justify the killing of the 11 day old infant and that the so-called protesters did the right thing.

    Hate to say but people like you cannot be even called Muslim as you do not represent the "religion of peace" in any way. If there are any problems then they need to be sorted out peacefully.

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  27. One last thing. We cannot and we wont give any independence to Kashmir. I am an Indian Muslim but even I would never allow Kashmir to be not a part of India. And there is not only one reason or two but a bunch of reasons for the same. The first and foremost reason is because if we give Kashmir independence due to a few anti-India elements, then crooks and anti-India elements in other parts of India would also start demanding independence. Second reason is because we have invested enough money and blood in Kashmir to even let it go.

    The best way I feel this issue can be resolved is by mutual understanding. If you all are ready to accept and work for the development of India like we all Indians irrespective of anything do, then I do not see any reasons why our govt. would not work for the development of Kashmir or Kashmiris. We all Indians irrespective of religion, caste, creed or region are working hard to make his country the world's economic superpower and Insha Allah all studies have predicted that we will become very soon. I can see the massive development and change in India. We want each and every part of India to develop but we want peace thats it. If the terrorism and anti-India problems end and everything gets settled, I am quite sure Kashmir will also develop at a rapid pace. Foreign investments will also come as soon a peace returns. Every Indian likes peace and prosperity and that is all we want. We are all Indians and the biggest religion or aim for all of us is "humanity". Live and let live. Hatred begets hatred and love is reciprocated with love.

    I want this problem to be resolved but dont have any sympathy for anyone who is against my country.

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  28. @ The Kashmir Center

    Why are you blaming Sir A P J Abdul Kalam. He is a great person and a great human. Why does he need to do only for us Indian Muslims. We are INDIANS thats it and we Indians dont believe in these divisions. He has done a hell lot for INDIA and that is what matters to us all INDIANS. He is a major reason for our success in these recent decades. He was one of the pioneers of two of our biggest scientific missions - 1) space mission and 2) nuclear power. He also tried to interacted and inspire millions of students in our country. He has done a lot in a lot of fields and please dont point fingers at him. He is a versatile genius and hats off to him.

    Just to clarify he was not the first Muslim president too. Fakhruddin Ali was also one of our presidents. Right now we have another minority Prime Minister in Manmohan Singh. Please dont give BS without knowing this great nation.

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  29. Czech and Bolivia, this is all you could come up with to support your argument? Even then you have failed misearably.

    The czech are doing just fine with the soviet union thank you very much.

    central asian STANS are not begging anyone, the world is begging them for their rich resources.

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  30. zaman beta, i think you have had too much kool-aid. It's not your fault. I think it is given for free in India.

    Now before you start talking about Indian spaceship landing on pluto, go read about gujrat, the kool-aid will wear off VERY FAST.

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  31. usman beta, I think you are one of those pathetic human beings who judges a whole country based on one incident. Perhaps you would tomorrow say Arab to be a terrorist country only on the basis that Osama Bin Laden was from there. Before making foolish comments, just check my post again. I said there has been problem and I never denied that. Perhaps your knowledge of history starts and ends with Gujarat and Babri Masjid. I never said that was right but try to look beyond that too. Every Indian irrespective of religion, caste, creed or region still lament on it and feel that it is a blot on our soceity. And frankly speaking 1993 or 2002 and 2010 has changed a lot. The mentality of people have changed even more in these years. We were united but we are even more united now and want to make it one of the next global superpowers which Insha Allah we will achieve soon. And to be frank, I have also seen nearly all Indians at least the present educated generation a lot lesser religious. I dont know but I feel that religion would diminish in future generations as development takes place. The developed nations and the West are already a proof of that.

    Regarding kool-aid or something else, this great country India has given me enough and I dont need anything more. It is my duty to work for my as well as my nation's development.

    One more thing. Stop the victim mentality. If people have to see the negative side of things only, then every person in the world is a victim. I want to be the world's richest person one day and I also can consider myself a victim as I am not. But does playing victim mentality help anybody. Only the winners play victim. The people who consider themselves victim will actually become a victim of their own mind and can never improve. The winners work hard to achieve success in life instead of cringing on thing.

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  32. I aggree with Zaman when he said Kalam has done a hell lot for India. I am a big fan of his. Usman beta.. why do you guys take up Gujarat for any argument? We know there are rouges everywhere and combined with mob mentality can be very dangerous..

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  33. @anonymous above

    Why do people bring up Gujarat?
    Because the issue is Kashmir and how you can enjoy your hell-hole country of India but dont force Kashmiris to join you. Gujarat and hundreds of similar incidents prove that India is a failed country and needs to disintegrate for there to be peace in South Asia.

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  34. @ Yusuf

    India will never divide and we wont let it happen. Insha Allah that would never happen at least in my lifetime or in any foreseeable future. That would NEVER happen.

    Regarding failed state, perhaps lack of education is evident in your posts and replies. You are saying the country which is already in the world top 10-15 countries and which is predicted by all economists all over the world to reach world's top 3 superpowers within the next few decades to be a failed state. I dont know but according to your logic, all the countries in the world are failed states and maybe with your logic, this world must disintegrate into maybe a million countries.

    As I said previously negativity about everything will bring even more negativity. Losers remain negative and winners work hard and remain positive. Hatred begets hatred and love is reciprocated with love.

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  35. Only some minority people will keep shouting that India is a hellhole, failed state etc... cant you see we are relatively peaceful compared to more than 50% of the worlds countries? The greatest weakness of India is corruption and even in that India rates above other south asian countries (with the exception of Bhutan. As per international corruption index rating India is around 80th place in a list of 190 countries considering which is bad but not as bad as you think and it is considered as one of the 20 greatest countries in the world by international media surveys.

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  36. Zaman mentioned several times of his beloved india's unanimous and universal communal harmony. In this context, I thought Gujrat's pogrom was highly appropriate. Those were not 'rogues', they were RSS inspired, members of the ruling party.

    Sorry, I brought it up. I didn't know that there are some unspoken subjects too taboo to discuss in your democratic country.

    How about you dictate the subject. Let's talk about the latest call center that opened in gopalabad.

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  37. @usman

    I see either a definite lack of education or you all possesing a blocked mind filled with negativity towards everything in life. I never said Gujarat was not wrong and perhaps you need to read my comments again.

    Anyways, frankly speaking I dont see any difference between your mentality and the mentality of the Swiss people who banned minarets. They never accepted the positive side of Islam and that minarets add to beauty and never harm anyone and similarly I dont seeing any positive in India. If people with mentality like you all or those Swiss people would have filled up the world then maybe there would never have been peace in the world. As I said previously hatred begets hatred and love is reciprocated with love. And you dont judge a contry by particular instances only. If that would have been the case then maybe the world would not have existed at all. Tell me one country which never had any internal problem at all. I can nearly bet that no country gives you the freedom and respect as our great country does. Give me example of one country which has perfect peace and tranquility and enjoys the freedom and democracy India provides. And please dont give examples of countries like Luxembourg or Vatican City which hardly have any population or area fit enough to be an independent nation. Anyways these two are not any perfect either.

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  38. @Zamaan

    Why don't you start by giving an example of another country that claims to be a "democracy" and yet has slaughtered 150,000 innocent freedom seeking people?

    When you answer that, you will find that only India holds this distinction. That is why India is loathed and hated by Kashmiris.

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  39. @Yusuf

    I dont want to look only at negativity in life but I dont need to see any further than our closest neighbours. I hate giving example of a country like Pakistan but they killed upto 3 million East Pakistanis during the 1971 war for your information. I can give you tons of examples of such countries.

    At the same time, I am not saying that killing of any humans is right in any way. But it again depends that who were those people. Were those terrorists and violent people or ordinary people who were peaceful. If they were peaceful innocent people who had studying or working and not making violent protests or not terrorists then it is certainly bad and there is no second thoughts about it.

    As I said previously too, no educated Indian irrespective of any religion, caste, creed, region or anything else would allow Kashmir to separate. It is not only due to one reason but due to a plethora of reasons as stated in one of my above posts. The best way forward is to live and let live. Remove the negativity and work with us all Indians. I dont see any reasons why there would not be development if there is peace. Not only India but foreign investments would also come in as soon as peace permeates through the valley. We all want EACH AND EVERY PART of INDIA to be developed including Kashmir. We want peace and progress thats it.

    This would also help Kashmiris because India would not need to deploy such a large army in Kashmir if there is peace (considering that one of your major concern is huge army deployment). Anyways as I said leave the negative approach and negativity in life. Hatred begets hatred and love is reciprocated with love.

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  40. @Zaman
    3 million Bangladeshis!! If you had to exxagerate, you should have used a number that's even remotely plausible. I wonder why history books don't refer to this supposed incident as a holocaust then?

    Holding an entire population against their will is called fascism. Nazis had a similar ideology, and you seem to have it as well. You cannot force someone to love your ideology of "one India." Just as the Soviets couldnt force the breakaway republiks to love the "USSR ideology", and just as Nazis couldnt force Polish, Czech, French, and others to love the "Nazi" ideology and all these forced amalmagations eventually failed--so will your country's imaginary castle of "one India" fail because a country cannot prosper through military suppression.

    There are too many similarities between countries occupied by Nazi Germany and Kashmir occupied by fascist India.

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  41. @Yusuf

    I am saying upto 3 million and perhaps you need to read "upto". There have been different opinions by international media and the figures differed. Some said 300,000 and some said 3 million. And for that reason you are also saying 150,000 as per the highest estimates. Anyways killing of any innocent is highly regrettable. As I said already, if they were innocent people who were just studying or working hard for the nation and not terrorists or violent protesters etc., then it is really saddening.

    Secondly, India will never fail. I see the present generation even more patriotic and we are even more UNITED than we were previously. INDIANNESS is increasing with every year and so your dream of disintegration is a dream far from reality.

    Most importantly, nobody is saying military suppression can prosper. But it can surely be on the basis of equal rights and equal opportunities and development. That is why I am saying peace in nearly all my above replies. There is a definite lack of education or too much negativity if you could not read that my posts were about PEACE and what is the best way to achieve it. As I said hatred begets hatred and love is reciprocated with love. Remove the negativity and start bringing some positivity in life. If you really want to do something for Kashmiris, work for education of Kashmir as education is precursor of development. Hatred will lead you to nowhere but education, peace and love will lead to your as well as Kashmir's development.

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  42. @Zaman

    I wish you and country all the best.

    Kashmir was an independent country. We want our freedom back just like India wanted its freedom from Britain.

    What seems to be the problem with this simple reasoning?

    What would your answer be to a British man in 1946 who preaches you about love and asks you to love the greatness of the British Empire?

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  43. One more thing I would like to add. I have never been to Kashmir in my whole life though I have heard a lot of the beautiful place from people how have travelled there. I would love to travel to the beautiful place and I still remember Dal Lake which I had seen in a TV serial named Gul Gulshan Gulfaam I had seen in my childhood.

    The only interaction with any Kashmiri is either online or in other Indian cities. I am self-employed and own my own businesses right now but I was working in several multinational companies till a few years back. I have met a lot of Kashmiris including mainly Kashmiri Muslims and a few Kashmiri Pandits and most of the Kashmiris I have met are mainly employees in reputed MNCs. I have never heard any of them cringing over anything and they are as much proud of being Indian as I or any other Indian is. They are working hard and working in good companies and earning well and living a good life. Many of them also go to Kashmir regularly to their parents and relatives while many are settled in the cities where they work. Most of the Kashmiris I met live and work at Delhi. I was good friends with many of them and they did not have the negativity and never cringed like I see a section of you people living in the valley do. I really fail to understand but it seems that the negativity problem lies with only a SECTION of Kashmiris residing in the valley because I have never heard any such things from any Kashmiri outside of Kashmir. I even doubt if you all represent any sizeable portion of the Kashmiri population because those Kashmiris I have met at Delhi are highly successful and do not sound like losers in any manner.

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  44. @Zaman

    During British Raj, a lot of Indians went to London to study, do business and used to sing the praises of the British rule in India.

    And your point is?

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  45. @ Yusuf

    Your logic and comparison to the British Empire is highly flawed. I never heard or read that British were giving equal rights to us Indians if I remember correctly. And I am in no way saying that equal opportunities and equal rights should not be given to ALL INDIANS including KASHMIRIS. There should be development and progress for all Kashmiris and peace in the valley too and that is what I have been saying in all the above replies.

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  46. @Yousuf

    Even today there are a lot of Indians who stay in London but they also respect and praise India AFAIK. For your information, not only UK but Europe's richest person is also an Indian.

    My point was the difference of negative and positive approach. The successful Kashmiris I have seen dont have negativity and dont keep cringing while the losers do not want to see anything as they are adamant on keeping a screen of negativity infront of them.

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  47. @Zaman

    Yes Indians had all opportunities of education and progress under British rule. All your freedom fighters recieved british education. All major Indian universities, hospitals, railways, libraries, government buildings and major infrastructure was built by the British. They did not have draconian laws like the AFSPA that protected british rulers from committing crime and being unpunished like India has for Indian soldiers stationed in Kashmir--read my latest blog.

    And yet you have no problem with India seeking independence from Britian, when you could have been thousand times more prosperous? Imagine, if the British did so much for you in 200 years, what they could have done for you till now.

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  48. @Yousuf

    There was hardly much development in India during those 200 years. We were left nearly bankrupt by the British when they left. We were the world's second largest economy before the British came just for your information. We were nowhere when the British left.

    Secondly, I am not supporting any laws at all. I just searched on google about AFSPA and from what I could understand it is applicable only in those regions which are considered as "disturbed" regions. And it was only implemented in 1990 when the terrorism problem came from what I could find on wiki. If there is peace again in the Kashmir valley, I dont see any reason why it would not be removed. It would not be a disturbed area anymore.

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  49. @Zaman
    [quote]//There was hardly much development in India during those 200 years//

    I'll let you be in your make believe world.

    [quote]//[AFSPA] is applicable only in those regions which are considered as "disturbed" regions. And it was only implemented in 1990 when the terrorism problem came from what I could find on wiki. If there is peace again in the Kashmir valley, I dont see any reason why it would not be removed. It would not be a disturbed area anymore.//

    I'll let others tackle this, or read through other posts here which has covered this...

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  50. @ Yousuf

    I am not living in any make believe world and I have been positive and will remain so throughout my life. India was the world's largest economy between first and eleventh century A.D. and then it was second largest economy for the next few centuries including the Mughal rule upto the time of British colonization. And when the British left, we were nowhere in the world in terms of economic capabilities and we were in dire poverty. So, I am not living in a make believe world but maybe you are living in a world of negativity.

    Anyways as I said I would like all laws in India to be equal soon. I really hope that article 370 of the constitution is also removed soon. I want Kashmir to be peaceful and all laws across the country be uniform. There should be equal opportunities and development in ALL PARTS of INDIA including KASHMIR and everything should be uniform. And I also wish that Kashmir valley would be peaceful again and it would soon get the "disturbed" region tag.

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  51. "There was hardly much development when the British were here?"

    I seriously thought Zaman was a child who had been over-dosed with Kool-Aid.

    To know he is a grown 'MNC bijnishman' and he still holds these silly notions is astonishing.

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  52. @Usman
    Yes indeed. I think he's a little school kid or has some sort of learning disability

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  53. @ Usman and Yousuf beta

    I think the two of you wont get to work as servants even in my house. I can buy dogs like you in 10 seconds and take my words on that. Dont make low blows because as I said hatred begets hatred and love is reciprocated with love. I am saying about peace and you are uttering BS. Anyways continue with your negativity and maybe destroy all the future generations too. Maybe you guys are too much engulfed with negativity that even Almighty Allah would never be able to clean your minds.

    Anyways I wont live like you losers and neither will any Indian. Live in negativity for 1000 more years and you will still find yourself deep inside the pool of negativity and even bigger losers. We as a country love cricket and follow it very religiously and the best cricketer of all time Sachin has today broken another world record. I personally love cricket and am very happy and dont want to go into worthless discussion with losers who are hell bent on keeping a opaque screen of negativity in front of their eyes.

    I hope that Kashmir gets rid of negative people and losers like you.

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  54. Learning disability comes to people who think of hate not to people who talk of peace. I feel Zaman is making full sense. Even if there was some development during the british time (Like railways they built for their trading reasons for eg), India became way poorer end of the day. They ransacked the wealth from India. One small example is the Kohinoor diamond you find in British Museum. It is easy to make a statement that someone has learning disability in our delusion. Wish we had people who think from different perspectives.

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  55. @Zaman

    Get rid of your mental block, and that might cure your learning disabilities.

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  56. You can totally tell the last anonymous post was zaman COMMENDING himself! LOL. The grammar mistakes, the child-like prose, the self-adulation is vintage Zaman. He doesn't even make an attempt to make 'anonymous' sound like someone else!

    Pathetic.
    "I feel Zaman is making full sense" - Zaman

    LOL.

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  57. zaman.

    what can you read faster #1 or #2.

    1) MARY HAD A LITTLE LAMB
    2) RAMY HDA A TTILEL MBAL

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  58. Usman beta... You are wrong. Iam a different person. But thanks for those comments... I had a hearty laugh and my throat is currently hurting. Modern day lifestyle sometimes gets on to you and you hardly get to laugh. I use Anonymous as I dont want to give out my real name and also dont want to use fake names unnessarily....

    Anyways, I choose to end the political discussion at least. Nice knowing you...

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  59. I think the solution is to give the valley area a taiwan like status. A 20 year roadmap to be established for Referendum to finalise boundaries and an agreement that if Pakistan, Taliban or Al Qaeda attacks the Kashmir valley then India will not help the valley Kashmiris. Also they will no longer get any ecnomic packages but trade will still be allowed.

    It is sad though that there are such situation in South Asia. For example, the Balochis have had 5 insurgencies over the last 60 years and millions of Bengalis and Balochis have been killed under govt. forces.

    GoI should learn from the action of the Pakistani army in Bengal and Balcohistan to understand the resentment of Kashmiris. As a Pahari muslim from Jammu and who still has many relatives there, I know that some valley Kashmiris are one-track mind and will not be happy with India at all even though they probably live a better standard of life than Jammuites or Ladakhis but that is their choice. Most rural Kashmiris just want a peaceful existence. Jammu and Ladakh WILL NOT join the valley in becoming a sacrificial lamb for Pakistan

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  60. IF U SEEK FREEDOM FROM INDIA...TRY IT IN YOUR DREAMS.
    PARTITION WAS A GOOD FOR WAGS OF YOUR KIND TO CROSS-OVER TO SWINE-LAND...OBVIOUSLY UR ANCESTORS STAYED PUT IN KASHMIR...AND NOW U WANT "FREEDOM"
    DREAM AWAY.
    WE WILL WIPE OUT EVERY SINGLE ANTI-NATIONAL ELEMENT IN J&K. NO MATTER HOW LONG OR HOW MUCH IT TAKES.
    ITS TRULY SAD THAT A LOT OF INNOCENT KASHMIRIS HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR SO MANY YEARS. IF THERE WAS NO TERRORISM IN THE FIRST PLACE, THEN NEITHER WOULD THE SITUATION HAVE ESCALATED TO THIS POINT. AND YEAH I WILL NEVER JUSTIFY THE ATROCITIES OF THE ARMY IN KASHMIR. BUT FACT BE TOLD NONE OF US IN THE ARMED FORCES LOOK FORWARD TO SERVE IN KASHMIR. THE FEAR AND MISTRUST BUILT OUR YEARS CAUSES US TO BE PROACTIVE AND CRUSH ANY PERCEIVED THREAT. A lot of men in uniform do not sleep easy either in the night...the regret and the pain caused by both sides haunts everyone.

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  61. pakistaan mein pakistaan k khilaaf naare laga k dekho tumhari gaand mein danda daal denge wo. India fir bhi libral hai ki kewal hathkadian lagai hain.

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  62. jis pakistaan se chip k huye ho na uska koi future nahi hai

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  63. all u indians are in a denial mode. why oh why are u trying to hold onto a land and people that do NOT identify with u. all muslim majority provinces went to pakistan during the partition...why did u guys take kashmir hostage. and after seeing all the pictures of india's war crimes in kashmir u guys are still saying that kashmiris are our people and they are pro-india (or should be). all the kashmiri pandit drama was propaganda tool by the indian government to gain the India's approval for fighting the "terrorists" in kashmir. man u guys r worse than the US, occupying territories and bulleying every country around u. indians r so delusional. a shameful sham democracy. go to kashmir and speak to the people instead of ur RRS gods.

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