Kashmir Truth Be Told Blog
Yus neereth gassan, pheereth cha yevaano: morda che gassan zinde (Kashmiri saying)

4/22/09

Slumdog Soldiers

I have been pondering how best to characterize the Indian occupation forces here. And then it dawned on me that calling them "Slumdog Soldiers" would best convey what Kashmiris truly feel about them. It is no secret what Kashmiris call the Indian soldiers and whisper to each other every time we see these criminals on our streets. But for benefit of keeping this blog free of name-calling and obscene terms, "Slumdog Soldiers" seems an appropriate term because it accurately portrays the irony that the occupation is.

Most Indian soldiers join the army straight out of India's slums. The movie, Slumdog Millionaire, accurately portrayed the miserable lives of India's slum dwellers and one can only imagine what kind of professionalism to expect once you hand these slumdog soldiers a rifle and ask them to patrol the streets of Kashmir.

I have mentioned it before and I will repeat it again that Indians need to get out of their self-imposed mental barrier and see that they are wasting their precious little resources on occupying a neighbouring country when they can be using the same resources to feed their starving millions and truly develop their country so they dont become the laughing stock of the world again with similar movies that will be made in the future.

India recently launched an Israeli made satellite to monitor the Kashmir border with Pakistan. This satellite cost no less than a few hundred million dollars of Indian tax-payer money. (Read the news story here) What is more important to the illiterate, miserable, and unfortunate Indian slum-dwellers? Their hopes of getting that night's meal or that their government is spending the meagre resources of their nation in useless spending on military technology sold to them by the world's most racist and hated country? If anyone had any doubts the most racist hated country in the world is of course Israel (Read relevant context here).

How long  can they sustain this false rhetoric of "atoot ang" politics and demonizing Pakistan to distract their gullible populace from real day-to-day issues like those portrayed in the Slumdog movie? All they have to do is grant Kashmiris freedom, and there will be peace in South-Asia the very next day. Israel will not be getting rich off the poor slum-dweller's lunch money.

EDIT:
Please read "Slumdog Army" instead of Slumdog Soldiers as aptly explained by Kashmir Center.

43 comments:

  1. LOL.....good one.. actually in my last post while replying to Liberal,I wanted to use the famous words "IDs go back" but then I thought it is not appropriate to use such words on this forum. I like the idea of using Slumdog Soldiers for the occupational army of India. I remember how 25 years back even before millitancy we used to shout during protest rallies IDs go back..We can have banners saying" Slumdog Soldiers go back" instead of IDs go back.

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  2. The Kashmir CenterApril 22, 2009 9:46 AM

    Music to my ears. Slumdog Army can be another alternative. Soldier is generally attributed to a patriot defending and guarding his own country. Since they are occupying Kashmir, they are not Soldiers but only an army of occupation forces. And leaders like Far OK Abulla, Om. R . Abulla, Sajad the Loner, Mufti the Whisker, Meh Boob Ah the whore, Alley Sagar and all others be called Slumdog Puppets.
    I hope you liked the names which I distorted delibrately as a repect to the Muslim names which these monkeys do not deserve at all.

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  3. By refering to Indian soliders as slum dogs you are honouring them - since a slum dog means a person who is born with all odds especially poverty and yet rises above all to rule .
    Who is born poor but does not allow his poverty to stop him
    My dear those who live in slums are humans who are just born poor and may take this as offense but who in world will listen to them - worldlistens to just money

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  4. SLUMDOG SOLDIERS IS REALLY THE BEST NAME FOR THEM.Also they come from Chambal valley ,a very prestigious place in India.Even some Politicians came from there.

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  5. At one point of time you were saying that american occupation would be better than Indian and the article about racist countries in world mentions clearly what america is but my dear leaving kashmir aside had india been involved in any kind of invasion

    One side you say america is racist and other side you say come here you racist and save me and even there are people asking UK government to solve kashmir . and Uk everyone knows what they were and what they are - in all ways India is better than UK or USA

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  6. @ anonymous2
    You seem to have forgotten how India Invaded East Pakistan in 1971 on the pretext of Saving Bengalis.How India India entered into ceylon,How many women they raped.slumdog Army has a base in farkhor Tajikistan wherefrom they have waged a proxy war against Pakistan vis Afghanistan.

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  7. @Kashmir Center
    Well said.
    Slumdog Army is better suited. Dont want to confuse people by what the true connotation is.

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  8. The logistics of maintaining an army in Kashmir is nothing for India. Just look at pure numbers. On defence, India spends only a reasonable portion of its budget, and most of it is not even meant for Kashmir. China spends a lot more of its budget (in terms of percentage) for defence and USA spends a humongous amount of money for its defence too. If you are talking about a military state where the army owns the lion's share of nation's resources and military spending accounts for the majority of the budget, you have to look over the border at Pakistan. Its defence spending is crippling its economy (which is already in a very poor state). India sure has poverty and there are a million reasons behind it, but excessive defence spending is not one of this.

    Well. Why don't you be open and admit that the feeling of some Kashmiris towards the rest of the "dark" Indians is "racist"
    in nature ? It has nothing to do with religion, it has nothing to do with language, it has to do with some godforsaken feeling that the rest of the Indians are an inferior race, fit for nothing but living in slums.

    The worst form of slavery is slavery to one's own darkest thoughts. If you cannot break out of these thoughts, you will never be free.

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  9. @Ray

    A disappointment hearing this from you.
    You mean with skyrocketing fuel prices, the cost of transporting your million plus 'slumdog army' back and forth in dilapidated petrol-guzzling trucks is negligible! The cost of heating their bunkers, and occupied bases, with most of the fuel being transported in the same petrol guzzling trucks..
    Most of these slumdog army receive a hefty allowance for serving in Kashmir.
    What a dissapointment Indians are not able to see that instead of sending your slumdog army to occupy Kashmir that these same men could help their own people by various other ways. The same money that goes towards sustaining this occupation could perhaps be used for educating young slum dwellers, helping out farmers who are committing suicide because they had no crop insurance, or maybe even providing clean drinking water to some of your populace.

    Comparing defence budgets with other countries is no argument. It is what India can afford and what it cannot. It is as if one of your neighbour owns a BMW, another owns a Pajero and yet another owns a Rolls Royce, and you reason that you are justified owning a Safari, when all you can afford truly is a maruti 800 or even a bicycle because other things in the house need better attention.

    Kashmiris being racist - I dont think so. However Hindutva ideology which has crept into Indian government, and sees Israel as its ally and therefore are racist toward muslim Kashmiris, definitely.

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  10. @koshur,

    India is a unique country indeed. Here the 'colonised' live far better lives than the people who are 'colonising' them. Only here can the rich 'colonised' and 'oppressed' people can pass snide remarks on their poor 'colonisers' and 'oppressors'.

    See the irony in that ?

    - LiberalM

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  11. Ray
    USA's GDP is 13.8 Trillion Dollars, China's GDP is 3.3 Trillion Dollars and your India's GDP is only 1 Trillion. USA is 14 times richer than India in terms of GDP and 100 times better Socially and Infrastructurally. USA's Per Capita Income is 30 times more than India's per capita Income. So is Chian much more ahead than India in every sphere. You are competing with these countries in terms of defence spending and are forgetting other spheres. You better compete with them in social and infrastructral upliftment rather than defence.
    Fact of the matter is that you want you big Slum dog army only to occupy Kashmir and establish your hegemony in the Sub - continent. Look around yourself. You have spoiled relationship with China, You are fighting with Pakistan, You have played your big brother role in Sri lanka and failed miserably, Your neferous creation Bangladesh is your latest enemy. You are subjecting Nepal to a worst kind of blackmail. You close the Roads leading to Nepal on minor and trival issues off and On. Thus the fault lies on you not your neighbours. You leave your hegemonistic aspirations and things will be peaceful in the sub-continent. Your forceful occupation of kashmir is bleeding you everywhere. Accept the realities and leave Kashmir for you personal good.
    Racism: Kashmiris are not racist but are themselves subjected to religious vendetta. You Indians are complexed with your Mughul Past and now you are venting out you anger against your Muslim past on Kashmiri Muslims. You are killing you by thousand cuts. Raping of women, Killing our youth and destroying our properties.

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  12. @koshur,@kashmir Center,

    You all seem to suffer from having a rather exalted sense of yourself and your place in the world.

    Here are some facts so you can put this in perspective. As always, you'll doubt the facts and call me a "Hindutva agent" or 'ID' or a "slum dog" or something else but I will let my arguments do the talking.

    India's defence budget: $20 bil (2% of GDP)
    Army's share of Def Budget: 40% (0.8% of GDP)
    Total Army Corps: 13 (1.2 million troops)
    Deployed in Kashmir area: 2 (170000 troops)(0.1% of GDP)
    CRPF total strength: 200000
    Deployed in Valley area: 58000 (700 companies until 2007, out of which 120 were moved out last year, leaving behind 580) (0.03% of GDP)

    %age of India GDP allocated to security in Kashmir area equals 0.13% of GDP.

    Out of this number (0.13%), only a fraction goes to maintaining the deployment in Kashmir Valley with the remaining going to other areas of the state that have nothing to do with the valley. Assuming half (erring on the higher side) is spent in the valley, it is only 0.065% of the Indian GDP.

    That is what India spends (0.065% of GDP) in maintaining its deployment in Kashmir valley.

    Hope this puts a more balanced picture out there for you to look at.

    - LiberalM

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  13. I am not comparing India's defence budget in absolute terms of course, but in relativist terms.

    India spends 32.7 billion USD for defence out of a total GDP of 1209 billion USD. (2.7%)

    Saudi Arabia spends 31.05 billion USD for defence out of a total GDP of 481 billion USD (6.4%). It also suffers a humongous US army presence in its territory.

    Pakistan spends 7.8 billion USD on defence out of a total GDP of 167 billion USD (4.67%) It suffers drone attacks on its own citizens by American planes, apart from legally handing over vast regions of its own territory to terrorist groups.

    China spends 70.24 billion USD out of a total GDP of 4401 billion USD (1.5%) USA spends 651.16 billion USD out of a total GDP of 14,264 billion USD (4.5%)

    Everybody needs some defence spending, it doesn't matter whether you are rich or poor. I think India's defence spending should be drastically cut down, in order to place priorities on more important issues such as education and health. But we have to accept that 2.7% is not an abnormal amount on defence, something that would cripple the economy. The reasons for poverty in India are manifest. The continued dependence on the whims of OPEC for energy resources, and USA as a market to goods and services not being the least. The international currency trade is tilted hugely in favor of USA as the oil exports are always priced in US dollars, creating an artificial demand for dollars. Apart from external reasons like this, Indian polity is uneducated and the country is lacking in infrastructures such as roads and ports. This reality will not change overnight, but over several decades.

    Koshur, you know that I am the first person to recommend demilitarizing the entire Kashmir valley. I hate to see military presence anywhere in India. This makes a mockery of democracy and I don't think Kashmiris deserve that, whatever their ideas of independence or sovereignty be.

    But I am getting tired of thinly veiled racism that I am encountering on Kashmiri blogs, whatever sympathy I had for the Kashmiri cause evaporates very rapidly when I see this. If I reserve my deepest contempt for anything, that will be racism.

    @The Kashmir Center,

    There is hardly any Indian who gives a crap about the past. There are too many problems that we have to think about, right here in the present and in the immediate future. There is no hegemonistic plans for India. If there were any, tiny countries such as Bhutan, Nepal and Sri Lanka would have long been absorbed. The current crisis in Tamil regions of Sri Lanka would have been utilized as the quintessential golden opportunity. But the fact is nobody in India wants to lose time and energy on hegemonistic plans. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to preserve the integrity of our nation as it exists today.

    Whether you feel Indian or not, there are a lot of Kashmiris who do. The very idea of India was conceived by Kashmiris. There are Kashmiri professors in every major Indian university, and there are Kashmiri musicians and artists who have made India proud. They might not be Kashmiris in your eyes, but they are Kashmiris nevertheless.

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  14. Liberal...Which Indian Country are you talking about?? India has long become In...DIE..ya. India is dieing day by day hour by hour.With the rising of Hindu Mahasaba in early twentieth century, you saw the first partition of In....DIE........Ya.With the rise of Saffron parties in the later part of twentieth century, you had to encounter terrorism.Now in the early 21st century with the rise of Hindu fanatics in your politics, you will see many partitions of In..DIE......Ya.

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  15. @liberalM

    Unless you provide some source to back up your numbers, it's your word against our's. No your numbers fizzled, they didnt do the talking.

    @Ray
    The fact is that we are the underdogs, the colony, the race being occupied, the nation which suffered a quarter million of its citizens slaughtered by India. I think we have earned every right to use whatever words we can to show our despair. Thats all we can do because that is what non-violent protest is.

    India's population in 1942 was 500 million, 1 lakh joined the quit India movement but 25 lakh Indians joined the British occupation army to quell the freedom struggle. (Click here for source)So your argument that some Kashmiris like India or prefer India is irrelevant. The only way to resolve this argument is through a plebiscite.

    If Kashmiris would have succumbed and had Kashmiris been defeated so there were no freedom struggle, there is no doubt other little countries would be next. That is what hegemonies are all about.

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  16. For benefit of other readers:
    1 lakh = 1 00 000
    25 lakh = 25 00 000

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  17. The Kashmir CenterApril 24, 2009 6:23 PM

    LiberalM
    Your figures are fake. You have cooked up your figures. Whom do you want to fool. Army presence in Kashmir divsion is 5.7 lacs, Air force .70 lac, Navy .20 lacs, Para military like BSF and ITBP, ITBF 1.1 lac, CRP and CISF .70 lac. Total 7.9 lacs say 8 lacs. Population of Kashmir is 55 lacs means for every 7 Kashmiris there is 1 Slumdog armyman.
    I have first time encountered figures given by liberal. Liberal is trying to count human heads in terms of GDP. He has put Indian Economy to a shame.
    Laberal forgot to answer my later part of the argument. Indias aspiration for hegemony over the sub continent. Ray tried to answer but could not convince even himself, leave aside us.

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  18. @koshur

    In this day and age, it is impossible to hide the numbers. Just do a search on Google and you'll find all the numbers I quoted on any reputable source. India's defence budget is not hard to find, nor are the Indian military budgetary numbers and personnel strength. The corps locations are pretty well known. The corps strengths are pretty standard the world around.

    If you open your eyes things will be visible to you otherwise you will see what you always see - dreams and nightmares but not reality. Reality is staring you in the face if you care to open your eyes and look.

    @Kashmir Center,

    My figures are fake ? They are all out there on the web in multiple locales on multiple sources every which way you look.

    I have to admit that your numbers are much more interesting though. Out of 55000 total Navy personnel, according to you, nearly half of them are stationed in Kashmir !?! You probably forgot that Kashmir is nearly 2000 km away from the ocean which Navy desparately needs for its ships ! Dreaming again .. aren't you ?

    Even if we take your super-exaggerated numbers (including the Naval ones .. might as well), the expenditure numbers come to barely 0.2% of Indian GDP. Those numbers can hardly bring India down - they are worth the annual revenues of a couple of IT companies.

    It is good to get a sense of proportion. To you it must seem like India is crumbling around to save Kashmir from going to Pakistan or going independent. That's hardly the case. To 99% of the Indians, Kashmir is a non-issue. It has zero impact (good or bad) on their daily lives.

    Hegemony ? Indian political leadership made a decision long time back that it is far better that Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal, and Sri Lanka cook in their own broth, rather than be our headache. Good decision, I would say.

    - LiberalM

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  19. @LiberalM

    Just goes to show what flimsy knowledge you have of Kashmir and the occupation forces here. When everyone with even the miniscule information about Kashmir knows the occupation force numbers are between 700,000 to 1 million. These numbers were disclosed during question hour, in the puppet assembly. Making it the highest density military occupation in the world.
    Kashmir center's numbers are accurate. The Slumdog Navy people are stationed around wullar. Again, I am glad you are being educated here, but next time dont start throwing numbers around and pretend you know a subject

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  20. @Koshur,

    Yes, sure. You will disbelieve what the puppet assembly says 999 out of 1000 times but on this occasion you'll believe the puppet assembly numbers.

    Yes, when you believe that half of Indian Navy is stationed in Kashmir on Lake Wullar, you can believe anything. You can also believe that almost the entire Indian military was made specially to oppress the Kashmiris. You can then further believe that the entire Indian economy is growing at a measly annual rate of 7% solely because of India's entire military being tied up in Kashmir valley.

    You can believe what you want but who will believe anything you say when you say that nearly half of Indian Navy is stationed around Lake Wullar ?

    - LiberalM

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  21. @LiberalM

    It boils down to citing sources and verifying numbers. As of now its your word against our's.

    Yes I believe that Kashmir is taking up your slumdog army's majority of resources.

    now that you believe there are your slumdog navy stationed in wullar. we are simply arguing about numbers. your word against ours!

    7% increase coming from the slumdog economy is not impressive. It's like saying to a train wreck survivor with 80% second degree burns ("sir, good news is that you made a 7% improvement since yesterday)

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  22. @koshur,

    Citing sources to you makes no difference. You'll question the motive of the sources and then the sources themselves. Telling you to look at the facts is pointless because you have closed your eyes. Telling you to hear the other side is pointless because you have closed your ears.

    You are filled with blind hate of anything to do with India (including the tiny minority of Indians who come to blogs such as yours). You may elicit a few laughs from your cohorts by calling us names. But at the end of the day, all that name calling does is lower you not just in our eyes, but in the eyes of the truly wonderful and tolerant religion that you CLAIM to profess.

    - LiberalM

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  23. The Kashmir CenterApril 25, 2009 11:01 AM

    Liberal
    If Indian Slumdog or Slurdog Army's deployment strength and placement info is so freely available on the net, then its a matter of yet another shame for India. This type information is not meant for public domain. All that which is published on the net is unofficial data. Liberal is only quoting the misinformation which he has has hand picked to mislead. He will never quote the most reliable data. He is only banking upon Indian propoganda tools on the internet. I fail to understand why he is counting human heads in terms of G.D.P. I have never stumbled upon such hilarious calculations anywhere. I have a degree in Economics and Management from a reputed European University but I think I need to re - educate myself. Maybe I should get admission in some Indian Slumdog University to learn more about Indian Fake Economy.
    My figures are authentic. My source of information is neutral and it is World Armed Forces Journal 2007 which is available with me. I have not got my information from the net. Only information which I got from the net is about India Para Military forces, through Indian Web Portals.
    In Kashmir Navy is usually deployed to man water bodies and as a commondo force. Naval Commondos are active in boder areas of J & K. They have usually an undercover mission. In JK they work under the command and control of Slumdog Army corps. I think this bit of information is enough to shutter down your propoganda shop. If you want further information on your Slumdogs, then request for it and stop spreading blunt lies. We possess lot of wits to expose your stupid agendas.

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  24. Check out my new post on Sajad Lone and Operation Clean up on my blog.
    Thanks

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  25. @Kashmir Center,

    I wasn't counting human heads in terms of GDP. I was simply showing how the defence portion of the GDP (2%) first gets split into the three services then how the defence portion gets split over the many Corps the Army has. The aim being that in the end, you can see that the Army deployment in Kashmir consumes a tiny portion of the GDP. Even with your numbers, exaggerated as they are, the deployment doesn't amount to much in terms of percentage of the GDP. As I wrote earlier, what happens in Kashmir has zero impact (good or bad) on the lives of 99% of Indians.

    It was simple ratios and proportion and anyone trained in 7th standard maths could figure it out. So no, an advanced management degree wasn't required to understand it. Just a bit of common sense. Perhaps you are reading too much into it ?

    Naval commandos in Kashmir don't add up to half of the total naval personnel strength. One needs a bit more of the common sense to understand that a country's maximum naval power will be deployed on the ocean and not in a region that is 2000 kms away from one.

    Assumption that you and your people possess all the wits in the world and everyone else is stupid is a dangerous assumption to make. People making such assumptions quickly hit the bell curve of intelligence distribution in any general population. If you haven't hit one yet already then perhaps you need to get out more ?

    - LiberalM

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  26. Hi Guys,

    Sharing this editorial with you. May be Kashmiris need to take a leaf out of this noble thought process building in Pakistan.

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/16-history-lessons-hs-01

    -corekashmiri

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  27. i fully argee....muslims in kashmir should be left alone and should live under their own sharia law....they have enough of their own dogs which can deal with them really well!

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  28. has anyone of you been to wular - these days where is water in wular - all around it has been sedimented and converted into land .

    In 80's Wular used to be full of water - a magnificent lake - now it looks like Talab - like those in Jammu or may be in Bihar

    - is navy not stationed on land

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  29. Anonymous...It has been my childhood dream to visit Wular Lake but have not been able to visit due to slumdog terrorists of India.They harass anyone, they can catch and Kill anyone due to special powers.
    Liberal.. I can understand ur feelings about "calling names" but would request to see the other perspective as well. Kashmiris can never forget the killings, rapes, toruture, occupation of our theatres, schools, colleges, houses, shops, govt buildings, playing files, children parks, roof tops etc. By calling them Slumdog army or Slumdog terrorist, we are only venting out our anger as we are a weak nation. However non one has and no one should call names to ordinary Indian citizens. That is not what Islam teaches us. ajaztam@hotmail.com

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  30. Wular used to be much much bigger and clear lake than Dal but it is not army which are responsible for present wular - it is our own greed for acquiring land that people around wular have sedimented the lake and convert that to land and then raise vegetation. We have lost our love and respect for nature and hardly understand long term implications of sedimenting a water body like wular

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  31. @Ajaz,

    Thank you your understanding on "name calling". Successive central governments have mishandled Kashmir. Successive Kashmiri politicians (starting with Sheikh Abdullah) also have not delivered. Art 370 managed to keep land mafia out of Kashmir (very good) but also left Kashmir without much outside investments (very bad).

    I understand how you feel about the armed presence in your backyards. But there was no such pervasive presence before 1989. Presence of Badami Bagh cantt does not rise up to the level of oppression (there are 66 other cantts in the rest of Indian cities). Jailing of Sheikh Abdullah does not rise up to the level of oppresion. He broke the agreement (Defence, Communication, Ext Affairs to India, rest everything to Kashmir) and started acting in a dictatorial manner. Kashmir had tremendous autonomy - it lost almost all of it due to the machinations and attempts at power grab of a single man (Sheikh Abdullah). Successive politicians after him were weaklings bent on looking after their own interests than the interests of their constituents. All of this stayed in the political space until 1989 - everyone knows what happened after that and the response that followed. Both the action (armed militancy) and the reaction (armed counter-militancy) were unnecessary and ended up in tragedy for Kashmiri citizens.

    There have been many states in India that have had weak political systems. However, problem of Kashmir's weak political history is compounded by the fact that it is also a strategically located area.

    I firmly believe that Kashmiris have to get past the tragedies of the past and look forward. I firmly believe that a peaceful Kashmir's future is tied to India - all other possibilities (independence, US bases, merger with Pakistan) being far more dreadful and/or unrealistic. I believe that civil society in India is strong enough to slowly but surely ensure basic civic/human rights to Kashmiris if (a big if) there is no local violence. I believe that AFSPA must be repealed from all parts of India.

    - LiberalM

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  32. @LiberalM,

    The arguments based on Logic, Rationality, Simplicity, Pragmatism are generally not understood in this northern most state of India.
    Everything is some how or the other tied to religion and that has been the reason for the turmoil.
    The mindset is pretty similar to what the world is witnessing in Pakistan, the mindset which they cultivated in the laboratories of Afghanistan & Kashmir.

    And now you don't need to be rocket scientist to understand the reasons for the affiliations of the commentators here.

    If the thought process begins to build around taking religion off politics, economics etc, they would start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

    The state of affairs in Kashmir is because of this mindset.And adding fuel to the fire is the total "Denial" of this facet. There is no other substantial reason for this state of affairs.

    Those guys would never understand, Quote :"Kashmiris can never forget the killings, rapes, toruture, occupation of our theatres, schools, colleges, houses, shops, govt buildings, playing files, children parks, roof tops etc."

    If all of this does happen or happened, it all started from 1989 onwards.
    And neither will the world forget the ethnic cleansing of kashmiri pandits at the hands of the majority in the name of "who you know well."

    Its just a matter of understanding the truth.
    As long as this Denial continues, this state of Affairs will continue.

    This mode of terrorism was crushed by a PROACTIVE Force and Diplomacy in Punjab and thats why it lasted only 10 years. And those guys were not even in Denial.

    While in Kashmir,its just been predominantly Diplomacy and a REACTIVE Force and thats why this state of affairs is lingering on. And why do you think it is that way for Kashmir? I dont have to spell it.

    Why do you think, India is globally know as a Soft Power? and not the one which knows how to be tough.

    You may provide some very rational and pragmatic arguments, but its futile when the party you are discussing with is in a state of complete Denial.

    regards
    -corekashmiri

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  33. Anonymous.... Killing of just 250 Kahsmiri pundits amounts to ethnic cleansing and killing of more than 90000 innocent Kahsmiri muslims is just a reaction to armed uprising..How logical and rational view???

    Liberal, please dont think freedom struggle just started in 1989. It only took a voilent phase after 45 years of denial of resolution by Indian govt. Article 370 is not in place.How many people in India know that Kashmir had its own Prime Minister till 1964 as per Article 370?? How can Indian govt unilaterally change Prime Minister to Chief Minister? We have given India many chances but they have always betrayed us from time to time. 1989 decided NO MORE TESTING. Kashmiris will never ever give up their freedom struggle. If you think everyting started in 1989, how do you explain the match between India and West Indies in Srinagar in early 80's during which India got zero support from Kashmiris. West Indies told the reports that they were overwhelmed by the kind of support they got from us. Dont think Kashmiris have become proindependent only after gun. It has been always in our hearts to get rid of Indian barbarism for the last 500 yrs since the days of Mughal occupation. ajaztam@hotmail.com

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  34. @Ajaz,
    Killings alone don't amount to ethnic cleansing.
    The vendetta was to turn Kashmir valley into a single religion authoritarianism something on the lines of Pakistan. And which the majority, successfully was able to achieve thorough killings, torture and putting in a fear psychosis among the minority community.It followed the same pattern of cleansing as that of Pakistan during the course of its 60 year history, and which led to a hellish situation where they are now.
    This can be defined as the days of 'Qayamat' for Pakistani Muslims and who to is blame except them.
    What India want to avoid is a similar path for Kashmir.
    I don't know which world you are living and I have mentioned, you guys are in denial.
    You forget that your grandfathers fought with the India Army to thwart out Pakistanis in the Kabali raid, where Muslim kabalis (including regular Pakistani Muslim Army) executed un-mentionable atrocities which you accuse the Indian Army off now.
    How can you forget the torture,rapes and killings of your immediate ancestors at the hands of your Muslim brothers from Pakistan/kabalis.

    PM to CM, Article 370 and so many more, were all political tools which political parties including kashmiri politicians used to be in power at the expense of simple Kashmiri folk.

    This article 370 provided local corrupt politicians the immunity of getting involved in real development work which the center could have done and which has been happening since 1990 in the rest of India.
    It killed the entrepreneurial spirit of Kashmiris, it made kashmiri business men immune from the competition they could have faced from the rest of the country and the world at large, which would have resulted in a lot of betterment.
    370 for kashmir can be compared to the license raj which existed in India prior to 1990.
    the kind of Indian entrepreneurial spirit which was witnessed after 1990 in India has dumb founded every one around the globe and same could have been true in case of Kashmir too, had Kashmiri politician allowed opening up of Kashmir to India and in the process to the rest of the world.
    If this would have happened, the back channel corruption done by kashmiri politicians would have stopped.
    Kashmiri like you don't see this view of things. you all, as I mentioned see all things,only through a religious perspective which contributes to ur undoing.

    As i have mentioned, you guys need to get your priorities and goals right. Get out of this denial and learn from history.

    Regarding your 45 yr old so called struggle,here is answer:
    Support for Pakistan and its fanatical ideology all started after 1971 when Pakistan got divided and Zia-ul-Haq came to power in Pakistan.It is a historical fact acknowledged by the world that he started fingering the religious aspect in Punjab and Kashmir to its advantage and who suffered Sikhs and Kashmiris, because they allowed this fingering (in Kashmiri "aunguj").
    All of this self concocted history which has no background was taught to people like you since last 10 years by dillusional people like Gillani.
    Don't you see the similarity how Pakistanis were taught extremism and a wrong history ever since Zia's time and see where they are now.
    Pakistan is the new Afghanistan in the making and more or less 90% complete, where soon people who can afford will seek asylum in different countries and then the ones who would be left behind would be like the impoverished Afghanis in Afghanistan.
    Don't follow that path in Kashmir.

    regards
    CoreKashmiri

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  35. @ajaz,

    I did not say Kashmiris became pro-independent after 1989. I only said that there was neither oppression nor pervasive military presence in Kashmir before 1989. The violent turn of events 1989 unfortunately resulted in tragedy for ordinary Kashmiri citizens for the next 20 years.

    Sheikh Abdullah is the key to unravelling of Art 370.

    Sheikh Abdullah met Adlai Stevenson in his capacity as Prime Minister. He also met the Chinese Prime minister in the same capacity. Art 370 specifically forbade such activities (Def, Foreign Affairs, Communications to India, rest everything to Kashmir). He was warned but he continued behaving contrary to Art 370, and had to be arrested for sedition. India did the right thing. Sheikh Abdullah took advantage of a soft state for many years and ruined the autonomy that Kashmir had and spoiled it for every one of you. India became extremely wary of such irresponsible leaders coming to power again and changed article 370 to remove Def, Foreign Aff and Comm from Kashmir's zone of responsibilities and changed "Prime Minister" to "Chief Minister". That's how you lost your autonomy - irresponsible leaders who had everything but still wanted more.

    - LiberalM

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  36. It is easy to find excuses for occupying another land..... Birtishers, Hitler, George bush, Indian govt........all have excuses for oppressing weak people. But remember, God is the ulitmate judge. As you sow so shall you reap.... Time will decide the fate of Kashmir and India as welll.India will never remain in peace untill it keeps its promise of right of self determination for the people of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh.. Ajaztam@hotmail.com

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  37. @Ajaz,

    Governments and nations only have their self-interest at the center of their policy-making. There are no permanent enemies and no permenent friends - just pure and permanent self-interests. It is in India's self-interest to keep its territory (most Indians do think Kashmir is part of India) under its full sovereignty. It seems heartless but nations don't have physical hearts to worry about: just plain self-interest. India has the ability and willingness to pay the price of preserving its self-interests (one united country that includes Kashmir). Kashmiri nation has neither the ability nor the willingness to pay the price for preserving its self-interest (independence). Therein lies the rub.

    - LiberalM

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  38. @Ajaz,

    NOw that you have finally taken the solace of Time, so God be with you.
    India is quite at peace irrespective of whether you are suffering or not.

    You guys started it and you alone will decide what you want for your future.
    If things normalize, Indian army would be back at borders as they were prior to 1989.
    Once again, since you have left it to Time to decide the fate of Kashmir, so be it. Lets see!!!
    At the same time, you also brought God in the scheme of things for Kashmir.So he would also judge what to do with the people who ethnically cleansed their own blood, just because they called Allah by a different name.Do they deserve what they are seeking?


    @Koshur,
    why don't you write this into a book??
    it can turn into a very good fiction.

    regards
    corekashmiri

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  39. @corekashmiri

    you mean turn this post "slumdog army" into a book?

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  40. Anonymous....here u go on and on. Killing of about 200 pundits is ethnic cleansing and killing of thousands of Muslims is not....India will never ever be at peace untill promises are kept.

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  41. The atmosphere which led to exodus of kashmiri pandits is what is called as ethinic cleansing since after being forced to leave their homeland their ethnicity will gradually die and may be within next 30-40 years you will see pandit culture vanishing -with that oldest cuture ,inhabitants and even scholars of kashmir will die.
    Ilm ( word used In Holy Quran more than jihad)will die . May Allah help each and every kashmiri to see light of Ilm so that they understand what is right path and wrong path and kashmir may not even ged rid of present inhabitants if voilence and killings especially of younger generation goes on like this the day may not be far.
    Hope that kashmiryat will Live

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  42. @core kashmir
    the book about the reality of atrocities committed on kashmiris by dogra kings and then indian mis rule seems fiction and the fiction written over years by kashmiri high caste hindus to supress low castes hindus and kashmiris be referred as text books,
    those days are gone man
    i thinks you seem to be ignorant of the fact that the time when kashmiri pandits had educational dominance by suppressing others education is gone forever,
    light has returned to valley
    now kashmiris are intellectually strong and informed about our history and culture.
    you should also take some standard reading of english and french adventurers and writers for knowing kashmirs past and international human right organisation and UN for current status, and should stop reading biased pandit hindu self styled writers (probably your relatives).
    and also when u watch news donot watch aajtak,ibn,lokmat, ndtv
    Watch international unbiased channels BBC,CBS,F 24, CNN etc etc
    it will add to your taste and will take you out of the blackhole of misinformations.

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  43. @KOSHUR
    SLUM DOG SOLDIERS, WHERE R U KOSHUR, WE NEED YOUR EXCELLENT WRITE-UPS, HOPE U R WELL AND HEALTHY WHEREVER U R

    TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF

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